good ones. >> coming off the red eye with red eyes. toddler behind me kicked the seat. >> basking in the glow at the expense of evil empire. >> we have someone on someone o with a red sox sweatshirt on today. opening day at fenway park is monday, 2:05, first pitch but who is waiting for that. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> i want to congratulate my good friend jimmy fallon. he is a hell of a guy and will do a good job. i have one request. we fought and scratched to get this network up to fifth place and now we have to keep it there. jimmy, don't let it slip into sixth! we are counting on you! >> i love you so much. i love you so much and i love this job and i love coming in. i just love it. thank you so much.

a lot more emotionally. a lot more emotional for me. i didn't know if anything was going to happen and say anything today and you think of everything and you realize all of the people you have to thank. my thanks to jay leno for being so gracious. i know this whole thing means so much to me to have his support. >> the white smoke coming of the chimney at nbc. anybody see that? >> we have a new pope! >> i got a call from my mom today. well, david, i see you didn't get "the tonight show" again! what are you going to do, mom? good luck to jay. i know he'll be out on the road getting it done and taking care of business, and congratulations on a nice long run there on "the tonight show "if, in fact, you're not coming back. >> you probably heard it was

announced officially today starting in february of next year after the olympics, i will take over as new host of "the tonight show" on nbc. i spoke to jay on the phone today and he -- excuse me one second. okay. apparently, it's a different jimmy that is going to be hosting "the tonight show." are you sure? jay leno passed the torch to jimmy fallon. does anybody know what the return policy is on a yacht? >> good morning! welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, april 4th. that was pretty funny. with us on the set we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. mike? >> mika?

>> yeah. msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democrat ittic congressman, harold ford jr. along with willie, joe, and me. how are you today? >> good. >> here is the daily news. >> it's all jay leno. >> the "new york post." works out a little better than the last time they did this. >> true. >> letterman was talking about it last night too. what was that about? said nbc was crazy forri doing this or sounding like he was defending leno? >> i think the 20-year-old wound is still raw a little for dave. you watch that last night. jay and jimmy actually like each other and that is real and it came across in the way this transition has happened. you have to give steve burke credit for saying not this time.

we are not going to have a mess this time and stepped in. i'm sure jay is a little bit reluctant to leave the number one show but i do know that he thinks jimmy is a huge talent and if he had to pass his show off to someone, he is happy to do it to jimmy fallon. >> apparently leno said this time is different because he was aware of the situation. >> i will say the guy stayed number one. >> that's the way to -- >> really gotten little respect in some circles but he has stayed number one. >> what number did they teach you guys to count to at alabama? >> we only count to number one. leno would be good at that. i saw him do a stand-up routine at alabama. yeah, he's number one. and he's been number one. he should be very proud of that. he leaves on top. >> 20 years. >> 20 years. man, that is unbelievable with all of the change. unbelievable. >> let's get to the news. president obama is giving back part of his salary in recognition of the bay cuts

levied on some government workers as a result of the sequester. the president's show of solidarity will amount to $20,000 or 5% of his salary. defense secretary chuck hagel announced he, too, would return a portion of his salary for an equal number of days that employees are locked out because of furloughs. hagel, meanwhile, is warning pentagon staffers to prepare for deep cuts in the face of mounting economic pressures. the defense department will likely be forced to slash nearly $1 trillion in projected spending over the next decade. joining us now from the pentagon, we have nbc news chief correspondent jim miklaszewski. good morning, jim. >> good morning, mika. >> when did hagel make this decision? i heard it was a little bit back. >> reporter: it was several weeks ago, as we understand it, that he had decided if civilian employees in the pentagon were to be furloughed, originally it was going to be 22 days and now it may be 14 days but, nevertheless during that 14-week

period, we would get 0% cut in their pay that he, too, would take a 20% cut. >> speaking of cuts. he is sounding the same warnings now that leon panetta was sounding a couple of weeks ago. hagel is saying that these cuts to the pentagon are going to devastate the agency and military readiness. >> reporter: the military was already girting for substantial cuts after the war in iraq ended and we started to drawn down in afghanistan. everybody here in uniform realized that cuts are coming. managing those cuts is what is important. the trillion dollars you're talking about, $5 hundr00 billi that was imposed and began under defense secretary bob gates. then the additional 500 billion or so came under the

sequestration. so the u.s. military is already preparing for drastic cuts and, quite frankly, they feel that that one trillion in that short period of time is just too much to bear. >> jim miklaszewski, stick with us. we have got other stories that we can talk to you about in this block, if you can. just days before the senate begins debate on gun reform president obama is looking for support outside of washington, d.c. yesterday, at a police academy not far from the theater shooting in colorado last year saying his goal is not to take firearms away from its owners. >> the components of some of these common sense laws have ginned up fears among responsible gun owners that have nothing to do with what is being proposed, nothing to do with the facts. but feeds into this suspension

about government. if there are any folks who are out there right now who are gun owners, and you've been hearing somebody is taking away your guns -- get the facts. we are not proposing a gun registration system. we are proposing background checks for criminals. >> i thought one of the most fascinating parts when he talked about michelle once saying, if i lived in a rural area and i lived on a farm, i would want a gun in my house and talking about this is not keeping guns away from people. that michelle was talking to the president. the president, of course, by extension understanding the importance of americans having guns in their homes to protect themselves. >> and protecting the right to have them, which i think anything that can be done to sort of erase this huge line of separation between gun owners and those who are for the assault weapons ban or background checks, there's not that much. i mean, it's not so stark. >> i think they are certainly

coming together. a very interesting story on the cover of "the new york times" talking about larry pratt and gun owners of america and they have jumped into the debate a good bit. and also, of course, connecticut and maryland. >> and maryland. >> you showed me the front of "the washington post." >> we will get to that. >> some legislation there. >> yep. including a no assaults weapons ban there. any mandate to extend the gun laws after the sandy hook school shooting has lost its way. a threat of a filibuster from senate republicans white house president jay carney addressed the upcoming vote saying, quote, it would be shameful to not allow any one of these measures to come up for a vote. the victims of newtown, the 20 kids and the six educators who lost their lives, deserve a vote. and that if you want to vote no, vote no. don't block a vote. that's not doing service to the

memory of these kids and as we mentioned, a handful of states are taking matters into their own hands as this is another example of the states being able to do what washington can't. maryland lawmakers just passed several new gun measures, including a ban on a variety of assault weapons and early this morning in connecticut, the statehouse followed the senate in passing what is being called the nation's toughest gun laws but the vote was met one described as a, quote, insane amount of people flocking to gun shops to purchase firearms before the gun is signed by the governor later today. "the wall street journal" reports this morning that pro gun laws are gaining ground in several states across the country. this year alone, ten states have passed 17 laws that weaken gun restrictions. so there you go. >> wait. connecticut, obviously, right in the center. >> of course. the emotional heart of the controversy. >> so that's not a big surprise gun restrictions were passed.

same thing with maryland. mike, some of the states are -- states are sort of going in their own direction. some states are becoming more permissive on gun laws and others like connecticut and maryland are becoming more restrictive. >> yeah, the big one, though, is in congress, as we all know. it's sad. it's depressing. you hear the president of the united states speaking truth about this. no one is coming after your guns. no one is coming after your guns. yet, it's likely several of these measures will be voted down in the congress which is showing amazing amount of cowardness when it comes to dealing with guns. connecticut has a strong gun law and we understand why that passed. the congress of the united states and inability to recognize what people want. the vast majority of gun owners i think would not be opposed to background checks, universal background checks. >> harold, you're from tennessee. i'm not only from florida, born in georgia and went to school in

alabama, lived in mississippi. >> all s.e.c. >> all s.e.c. i'm from the deep south. what can i say? most of the people in the deep south i talk to, whether it's first baptist church or when i go out, you know, football games down there, background checks for criminals, they are for it. >> yeah. >> they are just for it. i'm making no political statement here. my friends, first baptist church, pensacola and across the deep south i talk to, they are for background checks. listen. they don't want background checks to lead to national registration but if we are talking making sure rapists don't get their hands on gun and people committed violent assaults don't get their hands on guns and past kidnappers don't get their hands on guns and people who have committed violent acts in the past don't get their hands on gun and people with mental health problems don't get their hands on guns, they support that and

say draw it up so i can give my kid a gun that's been in my family a couple of generations without having to go through the feds to do it and i'll be for it. >> three things. two things. if same people get together and write the bill this thing could be done. one would think, fairly quickly if we were to talk in these terms. unfortunately, it appears those talking about it seem to want to take it further than it should. two, mika's point has something to do with abortion. you see some states taking steps to make abortion harder to get. what we may find, these two big social issues may find themselves before the court sooner, rather than later, some states making it easier to gets guns and some states making it hard to get guns. could be the court will decide whether or not some of these things are constitutional and what could product congress to act. on their own, congress doesn't seem poised or ready or politically courageous enough. 90% of americans want which is

just background checks for those -- for -- but seems logical. >> it's just not enough. >> the gun shop owners i've talked to in this debate go, they say the same thing. >> yeah. >> wait a second. let me get this straight. somebody comes into my gun shop and i make sure that i'm not selling to a rapist and make sure i'm not selling to a violent offender or some person who is schizophrenic and has past issues. i play by the rules. then somebody can go on the internet and buy a gun. gun shop owners are asking the question, why do i have to live by the rules and there is not a level playing field. >> what you have to do to buy a car makes me not want to buy a car because it takes so long. >> you have to have a license to

cut your hair. you would imagine -- they have to go through a background check. you imagine you have to do something to own a gun. >> crazy. >> it's funny you talk about guns and cars. you know how you know you're getting old? when you start driving around in a car and i'm dead serious with my kids in the back, and i look at every car coming at me as a weapon. like it just strikes you at some point -- >> wait until you kids start driving. >> the things you've known in the past and seen in the past year, cars are about the most dangerous thing out there, man! they are especially texting. i'm sounding old. it seriously gets more dangerous by the day and when my kids are in the back seat, man -- >> the stunning number of people on the road driving and talking on cell phones or texting it is the most dangerous weapon on the road. >> far more dangerous. a lot more dangerous than guns. i'd like us to crack town on texting. >> that's why we have to have

car insurance but we don't have gun owner insurance. what is up with that? >> i'm just happy to know harold's barber is licensed. >> thank you. >> there's some morning my wife feels the same way. >> one more point. i just saw jim clyburn yesterday and i think talking to andrea on her show. this is a 90/10 issue and talking about the background checks. we couldn't get it through as it stands right now and house of representatives. we understand the american public says 9-1 but he says i'm beginning to going to be blunt. we couldn't get it through. >> parties ignore what the american public thinks, lose elections. parties ignore what 90% of the american people think, they can hide in washington, d.c. for a while, but they always get smoked out. so i think the republican party at the end of the day is going to do the right thing here. i think the nra at the end of the day is going to do the right thing here. i think they understand they are

going to draw the line in the sand on so-called assault weapon ban and high-capacity magazines. >> you mean they will do the background check? say we are not going to let you go that far but we will give on background checks and gun trafficking. mike bloomberg was saying this two months ago. you want to stop the handgun deaths in chicago? you got a much better chance of doing that. he goes the assault weapon ban, yes, it's important but if you want to stop the most deaths, get a background check that -- and the trafficking laws that stop handguns from being passed from one gang member to another gang member to another gang member to another gang member and then it gets a 14-year-old girl shot in a park. >> i bet they don't make a single concession. >> we will see. we shall see. >> you mentioned this. a new front in the national debate over abortion

restrictions. a new alabama law would require doctors performing the procedure to have admitting privileges in hospitals but some of the clinics utilize doctors who travel from other states and under the new law, planned parenthood warns that physicians might not gain access to those medical centers. critics say the law is designed to shutter while supporters say it protects women's health. similar laus passed in north dakota and mississippi and tennessee point to a national trend on the issue. >> you talked about the courts. >> yeah. >> this will go up to the courts. you look at north dakota now. it is the legislature in north dakota over the years restricted abortion to a point. it's extremely hard to get an abortion in north dakota and alabama is gdoing this. fascinating when it goes to supreme court because it seems

to me a state has the right -- this is my opinion and i know a lot of pro choice people will attack me for saying this -- i think they have a right to regulate abortion clinics. if you're going to have a doctor performing this procedure, they have to at least be admitted to a hospital somewhere in our state. instead of somebody, you know, some abortion doctor flying in from, you know, across the country, landing and doing 10, 15 abortions. i'll admit, i don't know how many abortions they do when they come in and fly in but i guess they wouldn't fly in out of state to do one abortion. they fly in out of the state and do 10, 15 abortions and then fly out of state. the state has a right and i believe the roberts court will believe the state has a right to pass these reasonable regulations which is if you're going to come in and do abortions in our state, you should be admitted at least to a hospital in our state.

>> whatever the court comes down with, i happen to have a different opinion on this, on this issue. whatever the court may come down has to be consistent with precedent and federal law. my only point earlier was these -- both of these social issues could find themselves being adjudicated at the supreme court level which will then give us greater clarity and may give the congress greater courage to do something. next year, i think we will be talking about abortion the same pace and rate and velocity and perhaps with more velocity than we are talking about gun laws today because of these challenges. north dakota's law is far more stringent than what alabama and tennessee are doing. >> when you tack abortion next to gay marriage the two issues have been at the middle of this debate for years, americans and we have been saying this for some time, americans are becoming far more progressive on same-sex marriage and they are becoming more conservative on abortion. you look over the past 20, 30 years, americans much more conservative on abortion because, of course, you look at

jack who was born two months early. children in the womb are becoming viable much, much earlier and that 3d imaging. mike, you know, when -- i know when you had kids, the doctor would look at your wife's stomach and go, yep, there's one in there! even when joey and andrew, the first shot you get of joey and andrew, it's all sort of whatever. i still look at jack now who is almost 5 and i see the arch of his nose. not mine. i see the arch of his nose. and i remember the first time i saw the ultrasound and i saw, i said, my god, look at that nose! that's amazing! the 3d imaging in there is so realistic that you can't look that and go, know that is -- it is alive and you see it so much

earlier. americans aren't ideological. they look at that and say, okay, come on. >> it would be interesting to have a few people on who are in favor of states tightening up on abortion laws and talk to them about the logic of the same positions that they have about guns. they want government out of guns and they want government in with both hands on abortion. many of the same people. they want those two things. >> so interesting. yep. >> i know anne and she had 3d imaging. >> exactly. no way. one more story. we can bring mick in here. >> except on timmy! for some reason, mike wasn't invited to that ultrasound! >> no. >> walked around calling tim russert. how did he do that? post vasectomy too! >> awkward moment. >> mike, i'm proud of you. >> but hi a vas coma couple of years ago! >> how did that happen?

>> mike knew he was in trouble when they were sitting around the table and tim is on "meet the press" and little timmy gets up and goes, daddy! >> true story. >> we have that bob watson picture coming up too which is so cute. senior officials at the department of veteran affairs working to fix several problems at a hospital for vets in jackson, mississippi. issues include poor sterilization procedures, understaffing of the primary care unit, and misdiagnosis by the radiologist department. adding new leadership and reviewing ct scans. several vets in the hospital go back as many as six years. >> i tell you what, i'm going to be teaming up with jeff miller who actually succeeded me in congress. he is now chairman of the veterans committee. and we are going to start and we

are going to get jeff on this show and go around the country and talk about this more aggressively. this is an absolutely sgras. we all kn-- disgrace. people inside the pentagon can't be happy with just the backlog at the v.a., jim. it is just disgraceful. >> reporter: it's remarkable. by this time, it was estimated there would be more than 1 million disability benefits claims that are still on hold, that those veterans are waiting in line to get their disability benefits. and what is really appalling and nobody can really answer this question, back in 1982, chuck hagel, a vietnam veteran himself, went into the veterans administration is what it was called at the time, he recommended computerizing the files. here we are 30 years later,

still no computer files! >> come on! >> seriously! they have not computerized the disability claims for the veterans. >> wow. >> here is what really has the white house concerned and we talked to general -- former general eric shinseki for a piece we did for "nightly news." he said, look. when we came out of vietnam, we didn't take care of those kids. we can't make the same mistake now. but the white house, as we're told, is now worried that while president obama has ended the war in iraq, is drawing down in afghanistan, the fear now is that the legacy will be a vietnam type of legacy when it comes to treating the veterans. >> we have just got to step in. we are going to talk a lot more about this. willie, i want you to talk about this later as well because you've, obviously, been very, very active and interested in this. >> very blunt, one thing. at least one veteran of the

united states military will take his or her life today while waiting to have a claim picked up. >> it's unbelievable. >> jim miklaszewski, thank you very much. see you soon. thank you. >> i was talking about jeff miller and myself talking about we are getting paul reichoff who is a hero. we will get paul involved as well and keep driving this issue. >> good. >> can't wait. >> fine with me. coming up on "morning joe," "the new york times" columnist thomas friedman will be here and former anchor campbell brown and jean chatzky and head coach of the u.s. men's national soccer team, jurgen klinsmann. >> and the rutgers story. >> we have that and the entire newsroom with politico, they

will all join us on the set. >> when is it going to get warm, bill? when? it's april! >> i told you three weeks ago, two weeks ago. >> no, you did not. >> yeah, you did. you said three weeks ago it was going to be two weeks ago. >> yeah, exactly. let me explain this instead of telling you how cold and chilly it is all over again. why has it been so cold for so long? we have been in this pattern since end of february and i'll blame it on the polar vortex that is a cold winter storm that is sitting up over the hudson bay and it hasn't moved in about six weeks. it continues to blow down that cold air from canada and it's snow covered up there still. that's why. until we get rid of that polar vortex it will remain chilly. we were going to do that next week but not this weekend. in canada minus 11 in churchill. look at the temperatures. it is raining in atlanta right now with a windchill of 36! that's like what you have in the middle of winter. so the rain forecast from the

southeast is a cold, chilly rain from charlotte through tennessee and the carolinas. today's forecast, this is probably going to be the coldest day you'll have in the southeast until next winter so keep that in the back of your mind. things are going to look much better next week. here is the proof. atlanta finally rejoicing as we head towards your masters week. 71 on sunday and 75 on monday and some of that warm air is going to creep up the east coast as we go throughout next week. that's the home of the once famous new york yankees. this is a difficult year. already! you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ sneezes ] [ male announcer ] if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... [ sneezes ] [ male announcer ] you may be an allergy muddler. try zyrtec®. it gives you powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because zyrtec® starts working at hour 1 on the first day you take it. claritin® doesn't start working until hour 3.

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♪ 31 past of the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. "the new york times." new comprehensive study find the cost of caring for americans with dementia likely exceeds costs associated with heart disease or cancer. there are kurnltedcurrently 3.8

in the country living with dementia but the study estimates by 2040 that number will nearly triple. >> a big story. from our "parade" of papers. t.j. this is for you. the carnival cruise ship triumph lost power at sea for several days in february and broke away from its moorings in an alabama repair dock and slammed into another boat leaving a giant gap in the stern. 200 contractors on the board but no one hurt. coast guard still searching for a man docked into the mobile river after high winds knocked his security guard hut into the water. knoxville news sentinel. officials in memphis rename a street in honor of martin luther king jr. today and marking the 45th anniversary of his assassination. king traveled to memphis at the time of his death will be

renamed in his honor. >> have you been on a cruise, willie? >> never have. >> what do you think? >> am i allowed to say it? >> no. >> t.j. loves cruises. >> only time he gets a chance to talk to people! >> it was just bad luck! >> i go on the national review cruise, you know? i like that. >> to alaska? >> yeah. t.j. goes on the village people cruise. >> what? >> what is that? >> i don't want to be carted around with a lot of people. >> that is what it is. >> he dresses up like the indian, t.j. does. >> not true! >> day-by-day, different outfits! >> the vest! >> chaps! he has chaps. fake six guns! holsters! challenge people to quick draw contests. >> wow. >> sounds like a fun cruise. the new york yankees add another star player to a growing list of injuries as they drop

game two to the sox. i like snakes. ♪

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♪ people living in competition all i want is to have my peace of mind ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." time for sports.

rutgers has indeed fired head basketball coach mike price amid public outcry over the tapes of rice physically and verbally abusing his players during practice. you're looking at those there. rice yesterday was trite in front of reporters saying i legality so many people down. my family is huddled around in their house because the fact their father was an embarrassment to them. that is from mike rice the coach who was fired. surprising one player austin johnson came out publicly in defense of his former coach. >> i feel like this doesn't necessarily depict him and give you a true sense who he is. i feel like there is another side to him and i think the video definitely does seem a certain way, but it doesn't show everything else that was going on in the program as well. >> sources have told espn that athletic director tim pernetti job is safe for now. >> i don't believe that. i think the guy is gone. >> yesterday personnetti

accepted responsibility for keeping rice on board after he initially saw the tapes on board late last year. >> they saw the tapes? >> the president of the university saw the tapes and they decided to suspend him three games and fine him $50,000. >> are there any kids that complained? >> yes, some of the players left. >> forget it. >> what about the president of the university? the coach is fined $50,000. a considerable amount for a young basketball coach. >> yes. >> three or four months ago. the president of rutgers university claims he never saw the tape until this week? what is up with that? >> a group of faculty members have put a letter together saying we want answers. why wasn't the coach fired immediately? why "saturday night live" the standard if you physically abuse stunds student at the university you just get suspended some. this is not over. >> the president survives. how does the president -- i don't know who the president of rutgers university is.

but whoever it is, they -- this happened on their watch and they should be gone. it's pretty simple. >> you think this is pervasive in college sports? i don't know. >> no. listen, listen. >> it's very possible to seep into the relationship. i mean, it's a tough business. >> we talked about this before. we have all had played sports. >> right. >> and you've coached. >> some coaches were abusive. head coaches that hit, pushed. you're beat down on the ground. you know? 99 degrees and they would step on you. you know what? but this is so pervasive. guys like this don't win. at the end of the day, because they are not good. the great coaches could get angry but -- >> at that level, division i the student athletes are there because they demand something of themselves and want the coaches to be demanding but this was demeaning rather than demanding.

>> willie, i understand we have some positive news from college football? down at auburn? >> get to that in a second. louisville guard kevin ware was back with his team and will, in fact, as a lot of people had hoped, join them for the final four in atlanta. yesterday, the sophomore spoke publicly for the first time about that devastating injury. >> i couldn't believe it honestly. i honestly didn't feel pain. it was more shock. like i've never -- never felt anything like that in my life. i just want to know that we was going to win this game honestly. the only thing going through my head. i honestly wasn't concerned about the injury. i kind of felt like if that was the last time i played basketball, i left my mark, you know? and -- oh. >> reporter: what did it mean to you to wake up and see that trophy there?

>> honestly, it meant everything to me, you know? they went out there and did that for me, you know? words can't explain, you know? i love those guys to death, you know? i wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. those are brothers i never had. >> ware insisted he will never watch the footage of that injury. he'll start rehabbing his injured leg in about eight to 12 weeks and says he hopes to be back playing next season and see if he can do that. >> do you have any time for baseball news? >> this doesn't even upset me. this year is wash. yankees hosting the red sox.

kuroda on the mound for the yanks. line drive up the middle and grazed cue low dkuroda's finger. have to add him to the injured list. the first time since 1982 the yankees opened the season with two straight home losses. >> oh, wow. >> any feel good stories out of college football? >> there is one. >> glad you asked. >> what is that. >> auburn report by the journalist selena roberts. she has looked into the program. >> how is it going? i think next year is going to be better. >> she found a few problems. these are allegations should be very clear. >> what are they? >> the program changed players grades to make them eligible that they offered cash payments to convince kids to return to school rather than going to the

nfl. >> nod good. >> a few recruiting violations. again, allegations. >> i thought there was good news out of aur buburn. >> remember we were talking in the show earlier about little timmy pointing to the television and saying there is daddy. there is another one with bub was's son who is pointing to his daddy and saying, dada! >> that is the cutest baby i've ever seen! >> and the doctor who performed your vasectomy. >> coming up, mike allen and jim van and maggie are here!

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time now for the politico playbook which has already begun. we brought the entire politico newsroom here to the newsroom. jim vandehei and chief white house correspondent mike allen and senior political reporting maggie haberman joins us on the set. >> interesting. maggie, we have been asking for you on the show for five years. she doesn't like tv and not a people person and by the way, she writes really well but she can't speak in complete sentences. >> that is half true. >> galactic debut and see how it works. >> you told me you'll grade me later. >> many republicans say the party needs a new focus in the wake of the very disappointing 2012 showing. you guys have -- we will start with jim actually. you guys have some of the most

telling sound bites from these folks? >> we got a good video. >> a lot of lamenting about this. >> let's show it. >> we have got to stop being the stupid party. >> the party of scold. >> anti everything. >> stale and moss covered. >> antigovernment and government woman and antiscience. >> no you can't have an abortion and if you're gay you can't be married. >> big business, big manks and big wall street bailouts and big corporate loopholes and have to stop dummying down our ideas. we used to be the party that understood personal connections. >> we had a number of republicans that branded the this year with offensive comments. >> they still sort of looked down on minorities. >> we must not be the party that protect the well off so they can keep their toys! >> wow. >> they listened to you, joe. >> well, yeah. about eight years too late!

you know better now than ever. i actually do think, because i started in 2003 criticizing bush on spending and in 2004, criticized him on a a lot of different things and making stupid statements through the years. i think this is great the party is now self-reflecting. you know what that means? that means recovery is on its way and maybe some victories. >> could be. i think the big test is going done this year on immigration reform. if they are a part of a bipartisan bill that is signed into law the clearest indication. if they can't do that, great, you need to change but you didn't change. >> it's the beginning, though. so much else that is going on with the party. you heard it in the quotes from reince priebus. he is talking about ground game and it's not just stupid statements and immigration and

simple legislative focus. >> they don't agree how they will change. we talked about so many christian conservatives did it all by the idea of the more libertarian push and help them with the math and help them with the younger votes. >> the ground game part, i have to say i would love to do an experiment which i never would be able to do. what if mitt romney had barack obama's ground game? just i'm talking forget substance. just the procedure of it. just the blocking and tackling. that's how you win football games and that's also you win elections that having an organization that drags people out of the race. i'm sure you all know it too. maggie, when we would talk to obama's people each three weeks out, whenever he said, this still could go either away. >> they didn't think it would go either way. >> the republicans have no idea what they are doing. >> the republicans were talking about energy and enthusiasm. we have got great enthusiasm. that's on our side.

that does not bring people to the polls. >> we have all been to the postgame show that the two have done with each other. the republicans are so sheepish and romney folks were playing a totally different game. >> yes. >> maggie, you've been covering hillary fever. >> i know. >> you've got kind of -- >> you have a rash from hillary fever. it's spreading. >> i have hives. >> catch the fever. >> you have put together kind of a viewers' guide to hillary to get a sense what we should be looking for from her that may give us a sign she is ramping up? >> i think the most important thing to look at is going to be what she does in terms of things like paid speeches and how she starts making money. she was barred from making money when she was a senator, right? her husband was the one who gave paid speeches and they both have been very careful. i think you'll still see that level of care and i think she is going to be cautious who she is giving speeches and who is paying her and --

>> how much money? >> a lot. >> jack turns 5 on may 25th. if i want hillary to come speak at his birthday party, how big of a check would i have to write? >> 200 k-ish. if she gives speeches with her husband, it will up the ante. it depends who is surrounding hearses with staff and tell it you how seriously she is preserving this. >> you have been reporting the expectations are this is a different campaign staff? >> the hope it is going to be a different campaign staff. i'm not certain. mark penn in bill clinton's suite last year at the democratic national convention and a red flag for a lot of hillary supporters who is hoping it's going to look different than the flawed campaign did she learn the lessons? the hope she will start with a whole new team and sort of realize what she did wrong and manage it differently. we will see. >> hillary supporters, big supporters, top donors we talk to all the time, you start talking about her run in the

future, they go back to the past. and they talked about that campaign team. they said we want her to run and want to give her a lot of money but the campaign team has to be better. >> jim, mike, and maggie, it's great to have you on the set with us. >> thank you. >> up way too early this morning. >> so healthy. >> no. you should have seen the munchkins. >> it was great. still ahead on "morning joe," how shared diaper duty can stimulate the economy. >> i disagree. >> the topic in an article in the "time" magazine. we will be right back. i've always had to keep my eye on her... but, i didn't always watch out for myself. with so much noise about health care... i tuned it all out. with unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters... my individual health profile. not random statistics. they even reward me for addressing my health risks.

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♪ we are going to speak with mark sanford coming up in a few minutes and we also are going to be spending an invitation out to elizabeth colbert busch. >> it is a great show. versus the colbert report. >> oh, it is on. "morning joe" versus the colbert report! did i want this fight? no! but this morning. >> they drew first blood, not me. >> yes. this morning, was just pure infomercial for his old buddy, mark sanford. >> i've been a good friend of mark's for a very long time. i know mark.

bright, bright guy. worked on wall street. knows the issues better than anybody. >> it's my turn, joe joe. i'm going to shock some people right now. and endorse my sister elizabeth colbert busch for congress! mark sanford should thank you, joe scarborough, because i would not have done that if you had not inspired me. >> very well done. welcome back to "morning joe." harold ford jr. is still with us and joining the table former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner and thomas friedman. very good to have you all on board. >> good to have you guys on. >> thank you. >> we are going to have to go to charleston now. >> mika. >> if he goes down, we are going to have to go down. >> joe, i have known mark sanford longer than you have.

>> you have? >> i was at his wedding. >> you were? you also said jenny was one of the most gifted workers you ever had working for you? >> that is true. his wife worked at me and she was one of the most talented people i've ever worked with. i always thought she could have married someone -- any way. >> stop that! you're, obviously, on colbert's side. >> no, i'm on jenny's side, actually. >> oh, my gosh. that's convoluted. >> i tell you what, thank god that it's not a small little to his club here. >> no, it's not. >> we are going to charleston. >> let's do it. >> at least i am. phil, we are going to charleston. >> let's do the show there. >> i guess we need to pass that by phil first. >> maybe stephen colbert can come on the show. >> there you go. >> i tell you, we will do a swap. we go over there, he comes over here and he will explain why his sister should win and we will explain why mark should.

tom freedmiedman, you're ba! so much has happened since 1989. so much has happened since 2012. >> that's why -- >> talk about the book. you've expanded it. >> 20 years, my publisher wanted me to update the book and i have. a short chapter saying nothing has changed. that was, of course, until the arab spring a couple of years ago and realized something had fundamentally changed. the new chapter is called "watching elephants fly" which was my motto to covering the arab spring. i'm actually watching elephants fly. >> i was hopeful. >> i was very hopeful. as a journalist whenever you see elephants flying, shut up and take notes. because i didn't know how this was going to end. i think we still don't but we

were talking in the green room before. i think it's safe to say the arab spring is a disaster. unfortunately. i think we are still in the first inning but it's been an awful inning if you see what is going on in egypt today. we are staring at economic collapse. syria we are looking at state collapse. libya is going in the wrong direction. yemen is kind of stalled. tunisia in the wrong direction. >> you can look at russia in '92 through '95. an article in the '90s saying this country is in absolutely anarchy socially, morally and politically and took a while but, obviously, there are a lot of bad things about russia but they are a player now. how long is it going to take in the middle east? >> idle going to take longer because these are countries basically multisectarian in most

cases that like either a mid wife, an sternal force to refer refer referee between the parties. as the iron fist of putin holding the thing together and holding it together enough it's a very good analogy you make, joe. enough so the real agent of change in all of these countries is something that takes nine months and 21 years and it's called a generation. if you can get enough stability so a new generation can come of age and reading and working and traveling where tpit wants and u can give birth to that change age. >> how badly has the muslim brotherhood been damaged? their reputation is outsiders and changed in egypt? >> another good point. i think the thing that surprised me most about the muslim brotherhood is how utterly incompetent they were. they were underground plotting

to take control 50 years, and come in, clearly no plan. they appoint not really high quality people. every time they have a choice being inconclusive and grabbing more power, they grab more power. the other side is notte easy to deal with but they have blown this moment, it seems to me. >> how do they do this? they get a book off the shelf and say this is how you do democracy? russia never got to democracy and got to putin and all of his brothers. so i guess the question is how do you see the movie end? do you think end up being strong end and mubarak a strong end approach there or getting to some form of democracy? >> you do worry in the short run we are going in the business of exploiting anarchy not democracy any more. i don't think we are going to go there. but it does worry me that there

is no easy answer to your question, steve, other than this. if you say the muslim brotherhood has been worse than when he expected who has even been worse than worse has been the opposition. so the fact that the people who overthrow these governments, were able to organize but then failed to organize parties and platforms to contest elections against the muslim brotherhood, that's been a huge disappointment. now those same liberal progressive forces are basically sitting around hoping the army will take over again or we will come in and oust the muslim brotherhood and save them. the only way out is have the forces get together and contest elections. >> now listen. you have a piece from the sunday paper that talks about the problems we are having here at home which i want to put out to the panel. need a job. invent it says thomas friedman. my generation had it easy. we got to find a job but more than ever our kids will have to invent a job. fortunately in today's world

that is cheaper and easier than ever before. sure, the lucky ones will find their first job but given the change of pace today they will have to reinvent and reengineer and reimagine that job much more often than their parents if they want to advance in it. every young person will continue to need basic knowledge, of course, but they will need skills and motivation even more. steve, in what areas are there still jobs? i guess people go to north dakota now. lots of jobs there. in terms of trying to find a job, does thomas friedman make a good point? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. but, look. north dakota, there are -- we have an economy going in two directions. old economy and manufacturing areas like that where we're increasingly finding it hard to compete and wages under enormous pressure and next generation of workers earn less than the previous generation of workers earn but industries are doing well. you mentioned north dakota. the energy area is one.

we are still world leaders in information technology and media and also things like education and health care, providing it, i mean, where we are world leaders and if somebody from overseas comes here to get educated or comes here to get health care that counties as export. we will not become a museum like some parts of other. they are creating jobs and a lot of them are good jobs. >> to follow up on this invent a job. when i read the column, i was reminded of when we were growing up, if we had a birthday, we would get a hallmark card. everybody went to the mall and bought a hallmark card. it doesn't happen any more. i'm walking through and looking at a card we talk about jack's birthday is coming up. where did you get that?

somebody in florida started this -- this little online thing and i looked at it and it was so cute. so we are ordering cards on the fly. candy. we got a gift of candy because we heard from some blogger that there is this lady in central pennsylvania that makes this great candy so we got it and we give gave it to a couple of friends. i don't mean the to gross anybody out. shoes! i got these on amazon.com! i got them on amazon.com because i was shopping for a books. they looked comfortable and they government $19.95 and ill city couldn't tell you who the maker of these shoes but i know it's a very small company. this is -- >> two different colors. >> it's all right. >> you wear them well. >> this is the revolution, though. we don't get it because we grew up plugging into the matrix and getting the paycheck every two weeks. >> driving to the store. >> driving to the store. there are a new generation of people in their 20s and 30s that understand if they want to sell

the product, why buy a shop with brick and mortar in downtown new york? just sell it on your iphone. >> joe, one of the things i said about this sort of hyperconnected world is that there is one rule of business in this world. whatever can be done, will be done. the only question is will it be done by you or to you. but just don't think it will be done. a huge number of opportunities in this world but different from our generation. this world enables and empowers and requires more self-motivation. 50 years ago, think. i live in washington, d.c. baltimore is next door. 50 years ago what was the biggest company in baltimore? called bethlehem steal. you could drop out of high school and work for the steel union and get a job and get average job and average home and have an average retirement and perfect average burial. today in baltimore, bethlehem

steel. >> a lot of people would say it's a great life. >> compared to where we are today. >> it was a great life. the point is today, what is the biggest employer in baltimore? bethlehem steel is long gone. it's called johns hopkins university medical center. they don't let you cut the grass there without a b.a. i exaggerate but he know what i mean. every middle class job is going up, down. it requires more skill now to do as steve eluded to or it's going out, more people in the world can compete for it or outsourced to history to the past faster than ever. it's being maid obsolete. that is the challenge. that is what the column was about, mika. how do we educate people for that world for its requirements and its opportunities? >> which, harold, when i hear people talking about tax policy the past five to ten years and suggesting why the rich are getting richer and poor getting poorer and i shake my head if the world were only that simple.

if we could rebuild the middle class with tax policy, how awesome would that be? but these are trends. it's a tidal wave and we have to figure out how to harness about the power of it. >> i couldn't agree with tom more. university centers are the biggest across the country' not just in baltimore. switching one moment. we can't have you here without asking about north korea. how do you grade it the way we are assessing is right now the right way or how do you praise what our pentagon is doing in red sox what is happening there now? >> i think the administration has handled north korea well so far. those guys are off the grid. i mean, these are really nutballs. i think the only force that can deal with north korea effectively is a country called china and china it seems to me is behaving in a short sided way. they love korea so much they want two of them.

they want this country permanently united so you don't have a powerful nuclear armed north korea on its border. what happened yesterday was important. you heard voices, for the first time, in a long time loudly in south korea saying maybe we need a nuke. and when they say that, then the taiwanese say it and vietnamese say it. then they have a nuclear vietnam on its border. i think the chinese have to get out of the mode whatever is bad for the americans is good for us because they will wake up one day and find four nuclear powers on this border. >> weup next how latinos could change the face of politics for years to come. that is the cover story of this week's "time" magazine.

up next, though, jane harman joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ pnc bank is proud to bring back the father son challenge, in support of the arnold palmer hospital for children and part of our shared commitment to the next generation. learn more at pncfathersonchallenge.com

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a live look at capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe." the sun is up over washington. it's a beautiful day. you need to get up out of bed if you're still in bed. joining us now, the director and president of the woodrow wilson senator and former democratic congresswoman from california, jane harman. >> tom friedman say we are in the talent age and make an app and without leaving your bed. >> he didn't make that point. people can invent things from their bed. >> i say roll on the treadmill. >> true. >> that's where i watch you guys. >> that's where you can create

too. >> i really did have sort of this epiphany after reading your column for 25, 30 years, i was thinking, you know, i want to get this small store and i have an idea to sell some things. this small store in my hometown. i was driving down. i said, what? wait a second. why do i want to limit what i can tell to one small town when i now buy things in bed at 4:00 in the morning before i get up on amazon.com or i go to all of these other web sites? i can sell to 6 billion people right here instead of selling to 25,000 people who live in my town. again, we don't think that way because of the way we grew up, but younger people do. >> we are not digital natives and kids under 30, i have two of those. one who is at 30 who is getting married this weekend in new

york. yea, dan. their brains are wired differently and they do everything that way. they don't read newspapers any more which is very sad, or magazines. >> that is very sad. how many of you do your banking here? because i've gotten to the point now where i actually do my -- there is a bank of america app and i do everything there. i transpheromone to my kids and i do everything online on this. >> that is the upside is that you can be creative and you can be accessible. the downside is what do you do with the people who are left in the shoe stores that used to sell those shoes? because they don't have that. >> can you make enough money by doing any of these things? and some people can't and some can't. >> remember. anybody can start a business on that. you're absolutely right but at the other end of the spectrum you have am sewn that are acquiring such scale it will make it harder and harder for people to come in and compete. >> think terrorism. hate to bring this up, too. but the terrorists understand

this stuff too and they can manipulate. >> a whole new world. >> this whole new world to do bad things and they can, you know, sitting in some cafe in the middle of absolutely nowhere and launch scyberattacks. we have to understand the up side and down side of this new age. >> speaking of bad things happening. syria, maybe 75,000 people now killed. 6,000 last month alone. here is a picture. it's happening in syria. for some reason, when people were getting blown apart and killed in lebanon in the early 1980s we focused more on it when it was happening in bosnia and kosovo responded to it. i don't know how many were killed in bosnia before. i don't think it was 75,000. >> a couple of points. 75,000 killed and i don't know what the number of wounded is.

2 million displayed inside of syria and 1 million displaced outside of syria. john mccain came back recently from touring a refugee camp in jordan that is totally destabilized by this and making a tour of the camp. the camp director said to him, this is a new generation of jihadis. if you think about this, this is not just a syria problem, this is a world problem. i think we have reached the tipping point. i started out cautiously and got that point. no more land wars and all that. but this opposition or what is good about it and we seem to know who those people are, has got to get more support from the united states and it has to be known that we are helping. >> tom, i was talking to a business man in the middle east last week, who travels all over the world and travels all over the middle east. he very polite guy but took it to me. he said you americans have been sitting back and letting this happen and you think you're doing the right thing. you think you're showing

restraint, you think you're avoiding the mistakes of the past ten years, which fueled radicalism across the middle east. i understand this because jane just made the point. what you're doing is you're allowing the gutting of the ration national opposition. he said, i think it's already too late, i think you have already enabled al qaeda and the jihadis jihadists. because every sane rational person has either left or been shot and killed. now the opposition is al qaeda. great job, guys! that's what we are saying in the middle east. >> i have two reactions to that argument and heard it one. one is a visceral reaction. let me get this straight. shiites and sunnis are fighting who should be the prophet muhammad from 622. i'm supposed to ask my neighbor to get on a plane and send his son over and sit between them because they should not agree

who is the prophet mohammed from 622. start there. stand down there for a second, pal. >> what is your second position? you stressed your first position. >> once i got that off my chest, okay? then let's step back and see this in a historical context of a hundred years. we have gone first of all, from iron empires in the middle east. what they did there was take the contest of power out of bay root to dah mass cass and baghdad and took it bag to istanbul. allowed the minorities and mant majorities to live in harmony. that carved it up to the british and the french to the states and once they left after the world war ii they iron families and that gave way to iron 50s. either monarchies and generals and colonels and now they have overthrown the iron fists and colonels and monarchs basically. now basically there is no one there, joe, to basically referee

what will have to be a kind of horizontal dialogue between all of the constituent communities of these countries to produce a consensual government again. my relucktance do you disarm th people? if you want to control the future of these places you need an international force that is armed that helps these people make a transition from fragmented sectarian divided societies into some kind of cohesive consensual society. >> let me try something else here. >> i want international response as well. this is not the united states responsibility. it's the world's responsibility. but, jane, how do we do that without russia? >> yeah. >> exactly. >> russia has been very disappointed and, by the way, china, as tom said is the key to fixing north korea. no question. i hear that china is getting very fed up what is going on and that could be a game changer and so could russia still and syria. i think once it's clear bashard

goes, russia's tune changes. tom, why not think about one unified syrian government and think lebanon and think a coalition of different groups maybe that either with u.n. peacekeepers, or somebody else can get along with each other? >> good for me. >> but let me tell you why i think that is true. i think maybe that one unified government that comes out in syria, other than bashar ash cod be a bad islamist government. i don't think all bad but egypt as an example. if that doesn't go, if we have a coalition of tribes, because this is a tribal area, that may be a better result than keeping these artificial national boundaries that wouldn't work in the region. >> we are designing a system for

a bunch of people. >> i'm saying this may be the outcome. >> you can't wish for a system for people more than they wish for it themselves. i don't think you go in there. this goes back to the autonomy and the british and so on. that is what they tried to do and it doesn't work. >> i was going to say the problem is that i would love to see that kind of balance of power, okay? it only came about in lebanon after 14 years of civil war for three reasons. one, people were exhausted by 14 years of civil war. second, they actually cleansed each other so there was a balance suddenly that these integrated populations spread apart. third, this was critical, they settled their civil war on the basis of the premise of no victor, no -- the christians only 35% of the population. they gave them 50% of the parliament. will sunnis who are the mantle in syria say to the christians

and the alalawites. >> you're showing somehow complicated it is and yet we cannot sit by an watch this, can we? >> we cannot sit by. i'm not saying this is a preferred outcome. a preferred outcome is some kind of ration national moderate, organized, pluralistic, unified government and i don't know that they get there from here. but if it turns out that there is a kind of confederation and it's fair, hey, so that's -- >> but don't forget tom's point about the 14 years of civil war to get there. in other words, i'm not saying we can waive a magic wranand an say this is what is going to happen. >> do we continue what we are doing whether 100,000 get killed or 125,000 get killed and watch from the united states and say we have to wait until this shakes out? >> no. i think two things.

first, we certainly can try to put an international coalition together. france and britain wanted to go in there and overruled by the rest of europe so there isn't support in europe to do anything there now. secondly to tom's point about the person waking up and trying to sof 1600 years of history, we are not going to put boots on the ground. that's not reality. i think an argument but i'm not equipped to completely defend it to provide some arms and provide some training if you can figure out who to provide it to among these 2,000 different groups of one sort or another in syria all fighting? >> the virt ue of that i can think of as well if you arm the right people, i think it's a huge challenge, you create a situation where the opposition then can go to the russians and say if you don't ease us out in a post-syria you are dead meat and no access and no allies here. the only way we will get to some

kind of solution and jane eluded to it, you got to get the russians feel getting assad out benefits more than keeping him in and start some kind of renegotiation. >> but the russians fear a radical islamist government in syria hugely. think chechnya inside of russia. bashar, i think more victories by the opposition even though we are not helping very much. eventually they will come around, it seems to me and see what happens. my first choice is a unified moderate government. my second choice by them is some kind of pluralistic system, think lebanon and that would not be a bad outcome at this point but it can't go on like this. >> former congressman jane harman, thank you very much. tom need friedman, thank you as well. his book is "before beirut to

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charismat charismat charismatic and they are social conservatives and extremely social conservatives. we had already been working on this but when pope francis was named everybody is looking at latin america. in the united states it's really happening. >> what is the reason for leaving the catholic church, main reasons? >> there is all kinds of reasons. some of it is i was saying before it is kind of assimilating to america and makes people feel more american. oftentimes they are rejecting the old world. the old world to them is a catholic world and say they want a more personal relationship

with god which is easier in this evangelical church than in the catholic church. >> good question. partial answer. latinos remembering to their evangelical strain for a variety of reasons above all latinos want to know god personally without a priest as a middleman. more than 35% of hispanics in american call themselves born again. people are looking for a real experience with god. >> you get the idea that they want to become more american, whatever that means, but why would latinos particularly have this view they want to how to raelt relate to god and religion? >> they are probably come a country and speak in ignorance here. you're the expert when it comes to all things religious but they are coming from a country, most likely a lot of latin american

countries where the church is the church. not like you have megachurches. >> they don't have megachurches and i don't want to make a terrible generalgeneralization. it could seem oppressive and authorityian. you were reading by elizabeth deos in our washington bureau who has been all over the country reporting this story. >> want some more? planks for your question? >> answer my question, mike. >> among evangelical worship is adaptable and open to suppression. you want to pray aloud in your pew? do that each when the pastor is speaking. >> if you're not busy, mike, you could do live readings of our coaster story. >> i'm doing one today at 9:30. >> online. >> the politics of this is people -- we always try to predict what is going to happen after goldwater got destroyed in

'64 the prediction was the republican party was dead. two years later, the modern republican party was born. with ronald reagan's election in california. here, people look at this hispanic explosion and demographic explosion and say this will benefit the democrats because it's benefiting the democrats in 2012. i don't think it will just benefit democrats in 2022. hispanics, even catholic hispanics are more conservative culturally than are white caucasian democrats. >> ronald reagan said latinos are republican and they don't know it yet. what has happened they haven't been able to message these folks are republicans. >> we have been pushing them away. >> right. >> we have been pushing the voters away. what is fascinating you see evangelical church in general that is so socially conservative

but matthew 25 christians as i call them people that want to feed the poor. you talk about social justice. another strain that evangelical hispanics will be younger evangelicals across the board now who are less obsessed on the sosh issues we used to fight about and a lot more obsessed on taking care of aids in africa or taking care of the poor,ed t of needy. >> elizabeth makes the story a representation of feeding and clothing the naked in these churches and they address this. >> the mystery of animal grief, tell us about it. >> a new book about the nature and the idea of animals grieving and the piece by jeff kluger talks about a crow has died and group of crows.

the collective known for crow is an interesting word but they gather around a dead crow. something like a murder of crows or something like that. fascinating book about how elephants, horses, dogs all seem to have rituals almost that are similar to our rituals in terms of grieving for a fellow creature and it's fascinating. to me it's evolutionary thing. probably our rituals grew out of the thing done in the primitive and ancestral state and it has evolved by that. >> by the way, a reason the proper term for a flock of crows is the murder of crows. strange. >> there you go. >> looking at dogs and also horses. >> and horses. so the many examples of, again, dogs, horses that spend weeks and weeks after someone in their family has died or somebody who

has been intimidaate with them died and only now people looking at it and examining it and trying to figure out where that comes from. >> absolutely fascinating. rick stengel, thank you. the cover of "time" magazine this week is the latino reformation inside the new hispanic churches and transforming religion in america. >> also rand paul in "time" magazine the rebel. fascinating story about the republican party and how rand paul may help shape it. it's all in eye time "this week. >> i thought you were going to touch on that. he is making inroads with evangelical protestants. >> you're looking at the head coach of the u.s. men's coach soccer team jurgen klinsman and

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the head coach of the u.s. men's national soccer team and one of the greatest international soccer players of all time. also here espn's soccer analyst and not one of the greatest international soccer players,

not even close, roger bennett, and brian shactman has shown up. it's kind of weird. >> this is something. roger has been promising for a couple of years he was going to bring you to the set. he also promised while she was still alive he was going to bring elizabeth taylor, michael jackson, elton john, the queen. the queen. i still haven't seen the queen. you brought jurgen. this is huge. we're so excited to have you here. >> thank you. >> how are things looking for us? >> looking good. in the qualifying stage. we had three games so far. we're working on it. seven more games to go and hopefully being qualified for the huge tournament next summer. things are going well. >> feeling pretty good about our chances? >> yeah. feeling good about it. a couple of ups and downs which are usual in soccer. things are coming along. >> always up and down. >> americans love being number one. we've talked about this. and in that spirit what's it going to take for us to move

toward that position? >> well, becoming number one in soccer, that's a long way to go. i think what you see in the united states over the last 20, 25 years is a tremendous growth in soccer at all levels. kids level, millions of kids playing the game now. if it's at the college level, school level and especially on a professional side you have now a league that's competitive of mls. 19 teams. soccer specific stadiums. infrastructure built over the last 15 years. you are connected to the big game in europe. a lot of players playing in europe. best players are overseas in the top leagues. that improves your overall program. >> what difference does it make that clint dempsey goes around week in and week out competing against some of the best players and best drunks in the world. how does that raise everybody's game when he comes back from epl and he's on the team? >> it raises everybody's game

because his experience and his knowledge about it is just getting better and stronger. it's also his belief to compete at the end of the day with the best in the world in a world cup where only the best will be there. that's huge because when you are in the grind every three, four days in big games in the premiere league or in champions league that kind of forms you so your mental side of it changes and he brings that back to the u.s. national team for the big games and that means a lot to the other players. it has an influence definitely. >> to roger's point, americans expect a lot. globally the team is ranked in the low 30s. i don't know what the national team is ranked in the world. it's not in the top 10 or top 15 but you have players like dempsey and donovan. give us a reasonable expectation in terms of going into 2014 of how good this team could be.

you would like to win a game and be in the top 15, 16 in the world. >> our expectations in the next couple years is to break into the top 10 to 12 nations in the world. that's our goal. that's what we're waking e inii. you go in a knockout stage and round of 16 and that's where you're going to show off. that's why we want to do well not only losing in the first knockout stage round, you want to go further. it's all about mental side of it. that's why the experience of players in europe in best leagues helps them a lot. you want to eventually break into the top eight. >> it will be amazing world cup 2014 prime time, 5,000 american fans, unbelievable. topping 100 this week celebrating a century of the u.s. soccer federation. you've been here for 18 years. how has the game changed while you've been here? >> i think it changed tremendously over the last 15 years. i mean, i came here after the world cup '98 in france.

there was no soccer channel. now i think we have five or six soccer specific channels. radio is talking about. you guys are talking about it. the graham is played all over the country. it keeps going. it's not to compete with football, baseball, basketball. that's not our job. it's a country with more than 300 million people. there's space for everybody. >> isn't it amazing the world cup final last year had more viewers 24, 25 million back in 2010 than the final game of the world series. it is such a massive growing audience. >> the world cup itself is bigger than the olympics and it's only one sport. >> i'm saying here in america even it's unbelievable. >> isn't that the problem? they rally for the big thing. it's day-to-day that you wonder. it will be interesting because people think that maybe the english premiere league could end up being more popular than mls in the u.s. and people are

talking that mls should be a feeder to epl or something like that. do you think that our professional league could be something more? >> the professional league is automatically a feeder. it's no problem at all. once you improve the product and year by year you start competing with the leagues even overseas so you still have a way to go. it only can get better. now you see a big interest of european players that want to come to the u.s. even at the end of their careers but it helps to grow interest here. you have players like david beckham that game here for five years. it's growing. you can't stop it anymore this game in this country. >> no, you can't. >> i still want sedan here. let's get him. >> the queen i can get you.

sedan is a problem. >> can we show a clip for the uni unini unini uninishiated? >> we brought this for you. he comes bearing gifts. there is huge. you know what i usually give things to joey. i'm keeping this one. >> that's nice. >> it might be a little small. all right. we'll be right back. mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation

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>> i want to congratulate our good friend, jimmy fallon. he's a hell of a guy. he's going to do a great job. i just have one request of jimmy. we all fought and kicked and scratched to get this network up to fifth place, now we have to keep it there. jimmy, don't let it slip into sixth. we're counting on you, jimmy. >> the white smoke coming out of the chimney at nbc. did anybody see that? >> we have a new pope. >> i got a call from my mom today. she says, well, david, i see you didn't get "the tonight show" again. what are you going to do, mom? good luck to jay.

i know he'll be out on the road getting it done and taking care of business and congratulations on a nice long run there at the tonig tonight show if in fact you're not coming back. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. you're looking at new york city. you need to wake up. i'm not saying again. >> 5:00 on the west coast, willie. you have somebody from new york city telling you to wake up. >> covers back over the head. >> especially because you just got in five minutes ago. >> here's the deal. if i don't see you up out of bed in the next two minutes, i'm going to pour cold water on you. that's what i say to my girls. i actually do it because my father did it to me. mike barnicle and harold ford, jr. >> that explains a lot.

>> a lot going on. it's all jay leno. >> "new york post." >> works out better than the last time they did this. >> and letterman was talking about it last night too. some say that nbc is crazy for doing this. sounds like he was offending less than hno leno, what's going on there? >> i think the 20-year-old wound is still raw for dave. you watched that last night and the dynamic, jay and jimmy actually like each other. that's real. it came across that way. to give steve burke credit saying we're not going have a mess this time and stepped in. i'm sure jay is reluctant to leave a number one show but

jimmy is a number one talent and if he had to pass the show to someone, he's happy to do it to jimmy fallon. >> leno says this time is different because he was aware of the situation. >> the guy stayed number one. a little respect in some circles but he's stayed number one. >> what number did they teach you to count to in alabama? >> we only count to number one. >> why bother with more. >> i saw him do a standup routine in alabama. he's number one. he's been number one. he should be very proud of that. he leaves on top. >> 20 years. >> 20 years, man. that's unbelievable. with all of the change. unbelievable. >> let's get to the news. president obama is giving back part of his salary in recognition of the pay cuts levied on government workers as a result of the sequester. the president's show of solidarity amounts to $20,000 or 5% of his salary. defense secretary chuck hagel

announced he too would return a portion of his salary for an equal number of days that employees are locked out because of furloughs. hagel meanwhile is warning pentagon staffers to provide for deep cuts in the face of mounting economic pressures. the defense department will likely be forced to slash nearly $1 trillion in projected spending over the next decade. joining us now from the pentagon, we have nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. jim, good morning. >> good morning. >> when did hagel make this decision? i heard it was a little bit back. >> it was several weeks ago as we understand it that he had decided if civilian employees in the pentagon were to be furlo h furloughed, during that 14-week period they would get a 20% cut in their pay that he too would take a 20% cut with whatever the other civilian workforce would have to take.

>> speaking of cuts. he's sounding the same warnings now that leon panetta was sounding a couple weeks ago. haggel is saying the cuts to th pentagon are going to devastate the agency. and military readies readiness. >> we started to draw down in afghanistan and everybody here in uniform realized that cuts are coming. managing those cuts is what's important and the trillion dollars you're talking about, 500 billion of that, was already imposed and it began under defense secretary bob gates and so then the additional 500,000 or so or 500 billion or so came under this sequestration. so the u.s. military is already preparing for drastic cuts and quite frankly they feel that that 1 trillion in that short

period of time is just too much to bear. >> all right. jim miklaszewski, stick with us. we have other stories that we can talk to you about in this block if you can. just days before the senate begins debate on gun reform, president obama is looking for support outside of washington d.c. yesterday at a police academy not far from the site of last year's theater shooting in colorado, the president focused on universal background checks saying his goal is not to take firearms away from their owners. >> the opponents of some of these common sense laws have ginned up fears among responsible gun owners that have nothing to do with what's being proposed and nothing to do with the facts. but feeds into the suspicion about government. if there are any folks who are out there right now who are gun owners and you've been hearing that someone has taken away your guns, get the facts.

we're not proposing gun registration system. we're proposing background checks for criminals. >> one of the most fascinating parts of the speech was when he talked about michelle saying if i lived in a rural area and i lived on a farm, i would want a gun in my house. he was talking about this is not about keeping guns away from people. michelle was talking to the president. the president by extension understanding the importance of americans having guns in their homes to protect themselves and protecting the right to have them which anything that can be done to sort of erase this huge line of separation between gun owners and those who are for the assault weapons ban or background checks, there's not that much. it's not so stark. >> i think they are coming together. there's an interesting story on the front page of "the new york times" talking about larry pratt and gun owners of america and they are actually -- they jumped

into the debate a good bit and also of course connecticut and maryland. you showed me the front of "the washington post" -- >> we'll get to that. >> some legislation there. >> including an assault weapons ban in that. despite the president's push, any mandate on the federal left to expand the nation's gun laws after the sandy hook school shooting has lost its way. white house press secretary jay carney addressed the upcoming vote saying it would be shameful to not allow any one of these measures to come up for a vote. the victims of newtown, the 20 kids and the 6 educators that lost their lives deserve a vote. if you want to vote no, vote no. don't block a vote. that's not doing service to the memory of these kids and as we mentioned a handful of states are taking matters into their own hands. is this another example of states being able to do what washington can't? maryland lawmakers just passed several new gun measures

including a ban on a variety of assault weapons. early this morning in connecticut the state house followed the senate in passing what is being called the nation's toughest gun laws. however, that vote was met with what one shopper described as an insane amount of people flocking to gun shops to purchase firearms before the bill is signed by governor daniel malloy later today. "the wall street journal" reports that pro-gun laws are gaining ground in several states across the country. this year alone ten states have passed laws that weaken gun restrictions. there you go. >> connecticut obviously right at the center -- >> the emotional heart of the controversy. >> the emotional heart of it. that's not a big surprise the gun restrictions were passed. same thing with maryland. mike, some of the states are sort of going in their own direction. some states are becoming more permissive on gun laws.

others like connecticut and maryland are becoming more restrictive. >> the big one is in congress as we all know. it's sad. it's depressing. you hear the president of the united states speaking truth about this. no one is coming after your guns. no one is coming after your guns and yet it's likely that several of these measures will be voted down in the congress, which is showing an amazing amount of cowardice when it comes to dealing with this. the congress and the inability to recognize what people want. the vast majority of gun owners i would think would not be opposed to background checks. >> you're from tennessee and not only from florida but born in georgia and went to school in alabama and went to mississippi. all s.e.c. i'm from the deep south. most of the people in the deep south i talked to whether first baptist church or when i go out

football games down there, background checks for criminals, they are for it. they are just for it. i'm making no political statement here. my friends first baptist church pensacola across the deep south that i talk to, they are for background checks. they don't want background checks to lead to national registration but if we're talking about making sure rapists don't make sure their hands on guns and people that committed violent assaults deont get their hands on guns and past kidnappers don't get hands on guns and people that committed violent acts in past don't get their hands on guns and people with mental health problems don't get hands on guns, they support that. draw it up so i can give my kid a gun, my gun that's been in my family for a couple generations without having to do through the feds to do it and i'll be for it. >> last story. senior officials at the department of veterans affairs

are working to fix several problems at a hospital for vets in jackson, mississippi. the issues include poor sterilization procedures, understaffing at the primary care unit and misdiagnoses by the raid allediology department. the plan changes were meant with skepticism by several vets at some of the issues plaguing the hospital go back as many as six years. >> i tell you what? i'm going to team up with jeff miller who actually succeeded me in congress. he's now the chairman of the veterans committee. we're going to start and we're going to get jeff on this show. we're going to go around the country and we're going to talk about this more aggressively. this is an absolute disgrace. we know it's a disgrace what's happened to our vets. jim, people inside the pentagon can't be happy with just the

backlog at the va. it's just disgraceful. >> it's remarkable. and by this time it was estimated that there would be more than 1 million disability benefits claims that are still on hold. those veterans are waiting in line to get their disability benefits and what's really appalling and nobody can really answer this question, back in 1982, chuck hagel, a vietnam veteran himself, went into the veterans administration is what it was called at the time and he recommended computerizing the files. now, here we are 30 years later still no computer files. seriously. they have not computerized the disability benefits claims for the veterans and here's what really has the white house concerned. and we talked to a former general just last week for a piece we did for "nightly news"

and he said that, look, when we came out of vietnam, we didn't take care of those kids. we can't make the same mistake now. but the white house as we're told is now worried that while president obama has ended the war in iraq, is drawing down in afghanistan, the fear now is that the legacy will be a vietnam type of legacy whenacy comes to treating veterans. >> can getting men to change diapers stimulate the economy? some social experts think so. that's the topic of a new article in "the new york times." >> could i answer that question for willie and men across america? no. up next, campbell brown says president obama is giving the entertainment industry a pass in the gun debate. >> there's a great op-ed in "the wall street journal." she's a smart one. >> yes, she is.

>> you read this article and you wish dan would have got half of it. >> poor thing. >> we'll discuss the role violent movies and video games should play in the debate next. first, here's bill who is going to tell us when he can wear his speedo. bill? >> bill in a speedo. >> got to get ratings up. good morning, everyone. no speedos any time soon in the northeast or great lakes. a long wait for spring and warm weather. let me explain why it's so cold for so long. we didn't have a break. polar vortex spinning up there in northern canada. it's gone stronger and weaker but been in that general position. with that the winds come straight down from canada and the cold blast just enters the great lakes and goes to the east coast. we haven't been able to get southerly winds bringing us warm air. look at the temperatures this morning. the windchill is 35 in atlanta

and 36 in dallas. that's frigid for this time of year for the deep south. they have to warm up first and then we'll get the warmup in the east. it's a cold rain. that windchill of 35 in atlanta. with on and off rain, i mean, it's freezing. we've even had snow showers in the higher elevations of the carolinas this morning and back in oklahoma and little rock it's not much better. cold rain in little rock today. even reports of sleet and snow around oklahoma city last night. in our final stop, this is actually welcomed rain on the west coast. it's a soggy morning commute as you leave your door in sacramento, san francisco, and san jose. bottom line is, we have cold rain in the southern half of the country but at least the northern half this time of year when the sun goes to work, the afternoon will feel a lot better than it does out there right now. st. louis, you're one of those spots that will have stormy weather next week along with warmer temperatures. seems like you just can't win. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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>> we knew from the beginning that change wouldn't be easy and there would be powerful voices that would do everything they could to run out the clock and change the subject and ignore the majority of the american people. we knew they would try to make any progress collapse under the weight of fear and frustration or maybe people would stop paying attention. the only way this time will be different is if the american people demand that this time it must be different. this time we must do something to protect our communities and

our kids. >> 22 past the hour. live look at the white house. joining us now former news anchor campbell brown in today's "wall street journal" she takes issue with the way president obama is tackling violence in america in light of the newtown massacre. campbell writes in part this. there was something missing from president obama's wednesday speech in denver about gun violence. he focused almost exclusively on passing gun control laws and not at all on one of the nation's biggest promoters of violence, the entertainment industry. a more creative chief executive would have used this moment to widen the discussion by drawing attention to the increasingly graphic violence so pervasive in television shows, movies and video games. the president has been more than willing to challenge the nra but that's like a republican president standing up to labor unions, not a move that risks anything with his core supporters. mr. obama should show some real bravery by taking on hollywood.

mike barnicle and steve rattner at the table with us. >> a great piece. >> we said this from day one. if you're going to talk about it, don't just talk about guns. you have to talk about this violent culture. that's something unfortunately the president hasn't wanted to do. has not wanted to speak truth to power in hollywood. >> my husband and i were talking about this because he was on that first week after sandy hook with you guys and i watched the first few days of the coverage on this show. we were all so emotional. it was so raw. and so much emphasis was put on having or trying to find a comprehensive solution to the problem and this was the time that we were going to address it in a big way. >> mental health, media violence. >> very quickly the debate became so narrow and focused on gun control. i think there are political ramifications to that which is

why we ended up with a weak gun control measure. >> joe and i warned a lot of democrats and a lot of powerful democrats behind the scenes if you just make this about guns, you're going to kill any real comprehensive reform. you have to talk about violence in hollywood. like you said, for a democrat to take on the nra, that's about as tough as a republican taking on hollywood, this white house needed to do both. they haven't done it yet. >> you wonder -- i want to get to the substance. i don't want this to be about process or politics. the substance is really important. you wonder if the president had said to the members of congress to the senators from gun states like louisiana where i was born where guns are a big part of people's lives there. if he had said to those people, look, i want you to go home and have a really tough conversation with your people and say we got to make some changes here. this is not going to be the slippery slope. we have to trust each other on this one and you know what? i'm going to go home to my people and i'm going to have a

really tough conversation with my folks in hollywood and say you guys are partly responsible for this problem too and you also have to make difficult changes. >> they don't want to hear it. they don't want to hear it. every time we bring it up, hollywood does not want to hear that they have any -- i want to know when you bring this up in your piece, if we can restrict sexual content on tv, if we can restrict vulgarity on tv and fines can be levied for that, why can't restrict our young children from seeing one gruesome murder after another gruesome murder not only on tv but video games. >> this is what's amazing. every other developed country almost treats this the opposite of the way we treat it. they are revery restrictive wit violence and liberal how they deal with sexual content, nudity and language. we're the opposite. the fcc can only restrict language and sexual content on

broadcast television. there are no rules on the books right now that allows the fcc on broadcast stations to restrict violence. the fcc in a report to 2007, said we need to be able to do this. there's no way to regulate cable. the motion picture association of america, voluntary rating system, treats it the same way. much tougher on language and sexual content than on violence. it's not just me and tipper governor and mommies of the world saying this is bad thing. harvey weinstein got into a huge fight over this because "the king's speech" got an r rating because of language and you can have "the dark knight rises" that is graphic that gets pg-13. >> we all love harvey. he's made his share of violent movies as well. >> i'm saying the way the rating

system treats them puts more emphasis on -- >> as a democrat i agree with you. we should talk about these issues. the question to me is what can you really do about it? you mention the fact that the fcc can regulate broadcast tv but can't regulate cable which is a large part of the viewership. i don't think anybody has the ability to regulate video games. the motion picture industry is self-regulating as you know and you have the internet out there where if a kid wants to find violence, he can find it somewhere on the internet which is wild west frontier of not being regulated. i'm not disagreeing with you but how do you practically deal with this problem and rein it in? >> there's so much content coming into your life that there's no way you can control or monitor every single thing that your kid sees or absorbs. there are certain things we can do. one i suggest in the piece which will probably get me banned from

the show forever is unbundling cable channels. we pay for hundreds of cable channels or satellite channels that we don't want or don't want to watch and yet we're forced to because the cable company makes us buy the entire package. that's another thing the fcc called for in 2007. letting consumers treat cable a la carte and choose what they want to pay for. you can choose the box that allows you to block out channels you don't want to see. we have to pay for stations i don't want coming into my home and now i have to pay for the box to block them out. >> you would have to regulate the companies. >> there was a v-chip. al gore and his famous v-chip. it went nowhere. >> the fcc has said that has been entirely ineffective. and they don't even know it's in the television. >> it would be more effective is if they would treat people like

the porning a rafer that he is. the things he said were incentive. this man was the toast of hollywood. despite the graphic violence and all of his movies including the last one that was just praised to high heavens. he is a pornographer of violence and has made hundreds of millions of dollars for people in hollywood by being a pornographer of violence and bloodying america's culture and yet he is still praised. when are we culturally going to start calling out people like this? >> this is where i would say that this is why i think the president is uniquely qualified to address this in a way that no other president really has been

able to and no member of congress can because of his relationship with hollywood. look at how we have been able to stigmatize smoking, drunk driving through social campaigns and power of the bully pulpit. if he stands up and says and has a nixon goes to china moment and says -- >> smoking took more than someone saying we don't like it. it took some government involvement and new rules, which i thought -- >> if the president of the united states, mike barnicle, be it bill clinton or be it barack obama, a democratic president would stand up in the middle of the golden globe ceremony and the academy awards where everybody stood up and praised quinton. a guy again that we'll be glad to run clips every day of what a despicable human being he was after newtown.

he's the one this season after newtown that received rewards and great praise from "the new york times" all of the way down for pushing violence that our children are inundated with. >> let's talk about the reality. >> go rent the movie and see how gruesome it is. >> let's talk about the reality of it. again, i think we're all in the same page here. we all have children. we know the impact of violence and the nation now knows the true impact of violence in the wake of newtown which shocked everyone. now we're reduced and you're familiar with politics in washington. we're reduced to hoping and praying and begging that we get background checks done. that's where we are. what do you think would have happened if a bill had included video games and tv content? >> i think it would have potentially had more success

because everybody would have had some skin in the game. i'm not going to defend the nra. they have not done themselves any favors in this. by singling out the nra and making them the sole bad guy and gun owners being the boogie man in this conversation, i think -- the president did to his credit try to address this in the speech yesterday. you created this divide in the country. this rural versus urban. the lecturing that came from a lot of urban leaders felt like a tinge of cultural disdain. >> the lecturing that came from hollywood, some of the stars that were lecturing on gun violence, let's show some of the clips from their movies. again, i am disappointed in a lot of democrats that will praise me for being bold when it comes to background checks for criminals and yet they haven't spoken out. i would love to hear the

president, i would love to hear the vice president, anybody in this administration -- i would love to hear dianne feinstein, any liberal senator that's pushing gun control right now talk about hollywood's responsibility. i would love to hear that. that's what your piece brings out. >> i don't know if we would have gotten any further if the bill would be any stronger if it would have been more comprehensive. i do think it would have put everybody in the fight together and potentially not divided the country. >> i don't think it's too late frankly. i don't think it's too late at all. why can't the president pick up the phone today and call his own friend chris dodd and say you got to help me out here. we got to do something. rating system is a joke. we know it. a pg-13 movie is as violent as it can be. this is not acceptable. we have to do something. help me. >> and video games. >> today's piece is in "the wall

street journal." campbell brown, thank you very much. great to see you. come back soon. >> we hope your mom still talks to you after this. >> not allowed to criticize the president at my mother's house. >> up next, "the new york times" catherine rampell and jean chatzky. a new property tax cap... and the lowest middle class income tax rate in 60 years... and a billion dollars in tax breaks and incentives. new opportunities for business. over 250,000 new private sector jobs were created over the last two years. and 17 straight months of job growth. with the most private sector jobs ever. lower taxes, new incentives, new jobs, now that's news. to grow or start your business in the new new york visit thenewny.com

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up next, why "the new york times" catherine rampell says shared diaper duty could help the nation on the road to recovery. she joins us next along with jean chatzky. keep it here on "morning joe."

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from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. in business before the bell, there's new employment data this morning where weekly jobless claims were up to 385,000. that's the highest rate in four months. there's a reason i have a baby here. the new report shows layoffs up to 30% from this time last year. joining us now, finance editor

for the "today" show and personal finance expert jean chatzky. also with us from "the new york times," catherine rampell and her piece in the upcoming "the new york times" magazine is called lean in dad how shared diaper duty could stimulate the economy. this is how do you it just so you know. >> stop it. >> sweet thing. you say, catherine, that actually there's something about looking for someone who will share the responsibilities. this is about the concept in "lean in", her book. >> there's been debate about the role of women in the workplace and how you make it easier for them to achieve more in their careers that cheryl sandburg has been vocal about and a number of high profile women. >> a lot of debates. the concept in cheryl's book was about finding someone who is going to share the

responsibilities y ies at home. that means he's there and doing it. >> and willing to do it and perhaps willing to take some time off of work himself in the form of paternity leave to actually play a bigger role. >> how is that working for you? >> my kids were born 25 years ago. >> did you change a diaper? >> i changed a lot of diapers. >> i knew you did. >> in my view it's not just about fairness or feminism or those sort of fuzzy things that we like to talk about but it's an economic imperative. >> it's about money. >> the fact is that women are the majority of college graduates now. women are the majority of advanced degree holders now. they have a lower labor force participation rate. they are dropping out of work because they can't find jobs that accommodate a sort of work/life balance in which still traditionally women are the primary caregivers. >> i have so many friends especially in their late 30s having their first child and it's just not working. it's not worth it trying to

balance both. that's a big economic hit. i went through it. i pushed through. it was rough. >> it was rough for me too. i was always intent on staying at work. catherine talks in her piece about how productivity and the economy has actually gone up as women have played a greater role in the workplace. we have greater productivity that we could actually grab in some of those barriers came down. you have to not only look at the economy of the united states, you have to look at your own personal economy at home and figure out the right choices for you and for your spouse. >> i don't like the way this is going. >> you said something before. i understand. it's fair. let's just talk about reality. >> someone is listening to you. >> it's one thing if a mom goes to a boss and says i'm going to need the next eight weeks off. it's another thing if a guy -- i have to say -- if a guy comes to me and says to me, hey, listen,

i'm going to take the next eight weeks off taking care of my baby, of course the first thing i'm going to think is what steve thought which is -- are you trying to make me feel bad. are you trying to make me feel bad. >> how can you say no to that face? >> i'm going back to my experience which is i worked -- i was a lawyer from 6:00 to 8:00 at night and when i got home my wife handed me the baby say, okay, cowboy, bathe him and do the rest. i'm not going to have sympathy for a guy who wants six weeks off. that makes me a caveman. >> fighting against the women who went through the feminist revolution and feel like everybody has to pay their dues. we were talking before we came on about the fact that it is going to take one very brave high profile guy to change this. if mark zuckerberg were to take paternity leave when he has a baby and make a big deal about it, that would do something.

>> that's the problem that we have these norms. we have these norms where men are stigmatized if they take time off. >> that's the point i was making. >> that hurts women too. i have heard after writing this piece i heard from fathers who say i would love to take time off but do you think my boss is going to let me even if company policy says i can? that's my point. you need a set of social norms in which it's acceptable for members of both gender to be active in their child's upbringing. >> that's the point i was trying to make before. i don't want anybody to think that i really am a caveman. i'm talking about what we talk about should be and what actually is. for those of us a little bit older -- >> he needs to be changed. here you go. you'll do just fine.

>> even in today's world if a man says i want eight weeks off, you might look at him like what's that about? there's an issue of men doing their share. there's also a point that work is structured for one person to work in a couple and another person to take care of the children. so work is structured for people in very high powered professions as an 18-hour day, five or six day a week thing. whether you're the man or the woman, it's hard within the current structure of work. >> that's where there are so few women in jobs because if they're still -- >> structure of work to some degree to allow women to rise up. >> it's not impossible. i would argue that it's good for the economy. i'm not arguing that everybody should take a vacation and work less. it's that if you want to have your workforce be as productive as possible especially when you have an ageing population and you need people to be as productive as possible who are working age, you need to find a way to restructure the work day. >> that takes time. if we look at the number of years it has taken for women to get to the point that they are

at today, this is going to be an evolution. >> right. >> all right. this was fascinating. joe, your time has come. >> catherine, thanks so much. is it okay to say we met your parents and they're great. >> they're very happy about that. very excited. >> jean, thank you as well. we appreciate it. do you think i'm a caveman? >> not at all. >> a little bit. i'm a recovering caveman. we'll be back with the best of late night. [ female announcer ] when a woman wears a pad

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>> we're going to speak with mark sanford coming up in a few minutes and we'll send an invitation out to elizabeth as well. >> she has her own show. it's "morning joe" versus "colbert report." >> it is on. "morning joe" versus "the colbert report." did i want this fight? no. but this morning -- >> they drew first blood. not me. >> yes. this morning was just pure

infomercial for his old buddy, mark sanford. >> i've been a good friend of mark's for a long time. bright guy. worked on wall street. knows the issues better than anybody. >> it's my turn, joe-joe. i'm going to shock people right now and endorse my sister, elizabeth colbert bush for congress. mark sanford should thank you, joe scarborough, because i would not have done that if you had not inspired me. >> that's pretty good. >> do you believe that? i don't believe that. >> i think it's funny. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today?

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welcome back to "morning joe." we'll talk about what we learned today. i tell you what i learned today is that a certain father in here isn't sure that you're a good mother because he handed you his baby and said be careful. >> read my first book. he finds you fascinating. look. he thinks you're just

fascinating. i think i need a pacifier. that might help. >> soccer players are just like baseball players and golfers and remember everything they did on the pitch. i was at that germany/mexico game in '98. scored a goal. hot day. just like that. >> mike, what did you learn? >> i learned that t.j. goes to extraordinary lengths to buy chaps when he goes on village people cruises. >> i learned that too. >> i don't even want to think about that. i just got sick. >> what did you learn today? >> i thought two interesting articles in "time" magazine about hispanics becoming evangelicals and animals mourning. >> i thought bubba watson's baby, kaleb, which we have a picture of, i thought him watching his daddy on "morning joe" made him the cutest baby until i met monty's baby, graham. look at